Wednesday, November 16, 2005

Too Conservative

Well It's hard to imagine that it has been almost 6 months since I began Too Conservative, and I figure its time to reveal my identity(considering a lot of people know already) Sorry Jim Young, I am not O.P. Ditch. TC=Vincent Thoms Here's a little quick BIO- I began my interest in politics at a very young age, and was ushered into the party by Lees Corner Precinct Captain Peggy Reed, and an active Republican(at the time) named Phil Rodokanakis. Mr.Rodokanakis helped me become familiar with many Sully District Republicans, and I spent time going to Football games handing out Republican lit, and worked every election from 7th-11th grade. My first real race that I had a part in was with Mayor Tom Rust, who ran for delegate, followed by Ellyn Soefer, an independent for school board. Sophomore year of High School I was advisor to Dan Shields who ran for Southern Shores, NC Town Council, and continued helping with the Fairfax County Republican party. Since-Things have picked up. Beginning in August of '04-November I was an intern with Congressman Tom Davis' Congressional race, and worked over 30 h/w for the Congressman, often in full elephant wear. I had heard great things about this guy running for Lt. Governor, Sean Connaughton, and a PWC friend set me up with an interview. In December of '04 I interviewed with Chairman Connaughton and Jane Beyer, and was hired onto the campaign. I worked as "Deputy Field Director" in Northern Virginia for 6 months for Connaughton, and devoted every hour out of school trying to get Sean elected. After the primary, I went back working for Tom Davis through mid-August, at which time I interviewed with a pre-primary friend, Chris Craddock. I was hired onto the campaign as Deputy Campaign manager, and remained with Chris until last week. I am Chairman of the Virginia Teenage Republicans, President of the Chantilly Republicans, an associate member of the Fairfax YR's, officer in the Student Advisory Council, and the only student rep. on the Fairfax County School Boards Social Studies Curriculum Committee. Last year I was awarded Sully District Spirit Award of the Year by FCRC. ...and just FYI...I supported George Fitch in the primary...and DID something about it. At 17, it amazes me how we can demonize candidates who I have seen continually try and expand our base and help our party grow. Chairman Sean Connaughton is no RINO, just as Chris Craddock is no extremist. Thank you all for continuing to read TC, if we play it right in Virginia, I believe we will be able to pick back up these seats we just lost. I also wanted to thank the other contributors on the blog, they bring a variety of incite state-wide, and are truly representative of our party as a whole. If anyone ever has any questions, thoughts, or comments..send me an e-mail at chairman@vatars.org (Like the irony of the pictures?)

74 Comments:

At 11/16/2005 09:07:00 PM, Blogger Not Larry Sabato said...

You have done an excellent job on here, and I think you are one of the rising stars in the Fairfax Republican Party.

-NLS (Ben)

 
At 11/16/2005 09:11:00 PM, Blogger Not Larry Sabato said...

Also, only JeanneMarie can look good in all black.

 
At 11/16/2005 09:15:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

WOW, you have shown amazing wisdom and maturity for one so young and I echo NLS's compliment, with one addition...you, and others like you are the FUTURE of the Republican Party, thank God.

 
At 11/16/2005 09:46:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogs that operate in this manner are exactly why SOME people want to consider them campaign donations.

Deputy Campaign Manager for a delegate. And not a word to the readers.

 
At 11/16/2005 09:50:00 PM, Blogger Not Larry Sabato said...

Anonymous, you just attacked a high school student who came out and revealed himself, and did it without putting your own name on it.

How pathetic can one person be?

 
At 11/16/2005 10:30:00 PM, Blogger Shaun Kenney said...

Roger that.

Anonymous hacks. Ban 'em all I say.

Beyond that, great blog, and you said everything I wanted to say on Craddock and Connaughton above.

Keep up the greak work.

 
At 11/16/2005 11:37:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's rich. NLS worried about somebody being anonymous. Talk about a tool.

And the young man wasn't bashed.

And the fact is blogs just like this are EXACTLY why people want to regulate them. I do not want them regulated. I want campaign operatives to be honest from the get-go.

Other than the "perception of deception" this is a fine blog. And no one said otherwise.

 
At 11/17/2005 04:56:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

A Pub puppy.

Nice, real nice... a future Red Dog.

Keep up the good work.

~ the blue dog

 
At 11/17/2005 08:10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You da' man!

Now that we know your age, can we get Jim Young arrested for child molestation?

 
At 11/17/2005 09:26:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, NLS could be arrested for trying to tempt TC with those provocative pictures of Larry Sabato.

 
At 11/17/2005 09:34:00 AM, Blogger James Young said...

Well, Vince, I respect you for coming out of the anonymity closet. But that you were a paid Connaughton staff confirms some of my earlier comments, and I associate myself with Anon 9:46's comment. Further, your age and location demonstrates that you lack some of the historical background to understand how the GOP came to preeminence in places like PWC, a place that Tom Davis has always depended upon for his margin of victory. That having been said, not all of your comments can be dismissed as those of an uninformed snotnose, which we all were, once.

BTW, I've never called Connaughton a "RINO." But I have rendered just criticism on his record of tax and spending increases, as well as his dishonesty in a number of venues.

 
At 11/17/2005 10:08:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

See, he is a child abuser AND molester!

 
At 11/17/2005 10:27:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i guess you'll be signing up for military service on your 18th birthday, there is no othe way in which you can honor your party than to fight in the noble cause..

 
At 11/17/2005 10:30:00 AM, Blogger criticallythinking said...

Wow. Please don't take this wrong.

But posting anonymously to a blog about why one candidate should be chosen over another candidate, when you are being PAID by that candidate, is something I think is unethical.

And it could easily be suggested that this blog was an "official" campaign operation for Sean, simply because it was being run by a person paid by his campaign, and distributing campaign information for his campaign and against his opponent.

Now, I'm not saying that this blog WAS associated or not, or that anything posted by you or others was appropriate or not. I'm trying to keep this about a general principle.

And that general principle is that being a paid staff person for a candidate is WAY OVER that line of "whether or not I should disclose my involvement".

Hopefully, this gentle rebuke might straighten you out for your future career, which looks like it could be a good one. But if you get a reputation for being dishonest about conflicts of interest, you won't be accepted into the circles that I think you want to get into.

It is great that you have finally revealed yourself, but it is way too late. To make this clear -- as a paid staff of Sean's, it is likely you could have been on a short list for a paid position had he won the primary. And further, a paid position if he won the general election.

Therefore, you have a perceived financial interest in the outcome of the race, and you failed to disclose that to your readers.

Not only that, but your admission has now cast doubt on all the other "anonymous" people you have working with you on your blog. How many of them are associated with campaigns, or have a financial interest in the outcome of things they are opining about.

I wouldn't have ever THOUGHT such a thing would be true of the other semi-anonymous bloggers on your site, but I wouldn't have thought it of you either until you revealed yourself. Now maybe the others could at least each post and personally promise that they have absolutely no ties or financial stakes in what they opine about here, if they can't bring themselves to come out of the closet.

I can only guess that you thought you would have a broader appeal, and your words would be accepted as more truthful, if you hid this information from us. But that is insulting to our intelligence to suggest we can't make an informed decision -- and frankly, in this case the information withheld WAS something that would have correctly shaped what you were telling us.

That is all. Sorry for the long post. Thanks for the blog, and for allowing us to comment.

 
At 11/17/2005 10:43:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vincent, I just can't wait until you have the chance to go off to college and get away from the hacks that you currently think to be "conservative", while their actions prove them to be anything but.

You could be a strong force for the conservative cause, once you're able to identify what a true conservative is!

I look forward to the day that you're able to live up to your blogger-name!

 
At 11/17/2005 11:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Critically thinking -- get over it, he is just an enthusiastic young man with obviously a good head on his shoulders.

PS - In regard to "it is likely you could have been on a short list for a paid position had he won the primary. And further, a paid position if he won the general election.", you don't know much about the LG office. They stripped Kaine of most of his staff a few years ago so their is practically no money to hire anyone!

 
At 11/17/2005 11:03:00 AM, Anonymous TC Reader said...

Wow Critically Thinking. He is a kid that you feel the need to take to the woodshed.

Fact is this- Vincent did no different than the majority of other Bloggers out there working anonymously. Why do they tend to do that? Because being completely open and honest can actaully hurt your career. The blog world gives people intimately involved with many things to put issues in the open as well as comment in general on how they feel.

At no point in time did he not make it EXTREMELY clear who he supported and who he worked on behalf of through out both the primary and the general election. If you had read this blog since day one you would have realized that fact.

For now I think we need to commend Vincent for running such a blog. We could only pray and hope that there are more young people like him out there taking an active interest in politcs-- regardless of party or ideology.

Very impressive work Vince. Both you and the entire group of TC contributors have done an excellent job regardless of who you work for or what you do for a living. Keep the faith young man, you are a rising star.

 
At 11/17/2005 11:04:00 AM, Blogger MR JMS said...

Or the fact that Vince is still in HIGH SCHOOL. Sure the Connaughton team would have hired him right away. Though, he is probably smarter than the vast majority of state workers.

 
At 11/17/2005 11:05:00 AM, Blogger AWCheney said...

Really!? Would all this criticism of an exceptionally well-informed young man exist if everyone weren't just a tad bit embarrassed that he had the wherewithal to produce one of the most popular blogs during the recent election? O.P. Ditch, indeed! You should all be ashamed! He never ADVERTISED Sean...just defended him when some of his most ardent detractors came here to whip their favorite whipping boy. He offered Sean the same forum as he offered any other candidate or elected official during the past election. You (particularly that other "snot-nosed" kid, by behavior if not age) DEMANDED that he reveal his identity and, now that he has, you make him your new whipping boy. Fine way to encourage the next generation of Republicans, particularly one who has shown such amazing promise. I must wonder who the adults really are here.

 
At 11/17/2005 11:33:00 AM, Blogger too conservative said...

You just have to love the blogosphere.

As far as my thoughts from a campaign standpoint, if you read back on my posts even before the primary I was always fair..and tried to copy the "No Spin Zone."

I even stated numerous times great things about Bolling, Reese, and many other candidates.


Anyways-the blog goes on!

 
At 11/17/2005 12:06:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

Anon 10:08 --- I am obviously neither, though you are just as obviously an a**hole.

mr jms 11:04 --- On that point, I'm pretty sure we're in accord.

Anke, that'll teach me to say something nice. 'Fact is, he made the pretense of a disinterested observer, when in fact, he was a paid staffer. I detail those posts on my site, if you can elevate yourself enough to go there. And he was not so well-informed that he failed to parrot the Connaughton tax cut lie. I neither want nor intended to discourage him, except to the extent that I want to discourage less that full disclosure. You know, like disclosing your connection to the now-dismissed felony charges against Steve Chapman, which you kept a secret until AFTER Harry Parrish had successfully secured re-nomination.

 
At 11/17/2005 12:11:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

JY-
Regardless of what had happened you would have attacked.

It's over.

and don't worry, I am not discouraged. I am getting more and more used to dealing with people like this in our party.

 
At 11/17/2005 01:24:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

OMOM says some things that need to have been said, particularly regarding you penchant for attacking Sean's perceived enemies.

And while some Commie leader noted that "Gratitude is a disease of dogs," I would note that ingratitude is a disease of Sean's, since I, more than a few times, lent support for his candidacy for BOCS Chairman in my column. How soon they forget!

And one more thing, said over on my little space: given the increasingly obvious Fairfax nature of some of the contributors --- only Riley and Hirons are admitted PWC contributors to TC --- I'm reminded of something I heard more than a decade ago, which nevertheless seems to be the goal of TC: "Don't Fairfax Prince William!"

There's some regionalism that should appeal to TC.

 
At 11/17/2005 01:58:00 PM, Blogger Not Mark Rozell said...

Vincent: I decided to come out of hiding for a few moments to congratulate you. I suspected at various points that you were Too Conservative, but your insight convinced me otherwise. I didn't think someone at 17 possessed the kind of political insight that you have. You now join the Boy-Wonder Bloggers formerly occupied only by Kenton Ngo.

Keep your head up and your nose down, and you'll do just fine.

Now back to the dust heap for me.

NMR

 
At 11/17/2005 02:18:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

Jaded Jd, NMOM

Jim Young, you state on your blog that you do not know me, but yet...you tell me I am a moderate because of my support for Connaughton.

Also-You and NMOM state I use the blog to publically "smear" enemies of Connaughton. The "enemies" of Connaughton statement simply does not work. I spent the last 3 months working for a candidate who openly supported Bill Bolling even before the primary.

Your labeling of myself, Connaughton, and others is the exact problem with our party. You have successfully single handedly helped me to realize what problems we need to fix as a party. You label me a moderate, based not on my views, but instead on one man I used to work for, who you have some strange obsession with.

As for MNOM, and the other 3 anon bloggers...I have never claimed to have a big ego. I am just a hardworker for the party, who tries to expand our base, and get out our values to the younger generation.

I wish some of the anon commenters would all speak out about their identities.

For my entire life now, when our party labels someone a moderate, rino, or liberal, I am going to have to consider all the facts myself, because the definitions have been twisted in such a way that disturbs me.

 
At 11/17/2005 02:28:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

Vincent, you are absolutely correct on the labeling that is being passed around our party. It is damaging and divisive and it is good that you have learned that at a young age

 
At 11/17/2005 02:31:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

To James Young, 12:06 PM Post:

James, you don’t get it, do you? I really don’t care at all about your opinion any longer, good, bad, or indifferent, particularly after your first post in reaction to the revelations of a most impressive young man (see JY, 9:30 AM post above). You, yourself, were under the impression that TC was, in fact, a man of many more years and, certainly, far more experience than even you (O.P. Ditch). In your embarrassment you seek to tear down a gifted youth who should be encouraged to build upon these gifts rather than be discouraged. This is my last response to you, on anything, in our ongoing blog diatribe (I can’t justify calling it dialogue). I have no doubt that you will attempt to incite me to response again by any means possible, but you are just not worth it.

 
At 11/17/2005 02:49:00 PM, Blogger Not Not Jay Hughes said...

Since everyone is having a love fest of revealing their true identities...I would like the world to know that I really am Jay Hughes. Well, at least I hope I am.....because I'm wearing his underwear.

 
At 11/17/2005 03:09:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

Well, TC, I wouldn't have labeled you a "moderate" had you analyzed policy rather than --- it seemed --- relied upon personality or regionalism. We can debate the relative merits of policy/personality/regionalism as valid/governing concerns as a matter of political strategy or primary choices, but the fact is, Chairman Sean tried to run on policy, claiming to be a "conservative," a claim unsustained by his fiscal record in PWC. You (and others; you're hardly alone) served as apologists for that record, which only a "moderate" could possibly describe or support that as "conservative." It was on that basis that I assumed you to be a "moderate." If I was wrong, I certainly apologize, but had you not so closely and manically aligned yourself with Chairman Sean (an alliance whose reasons are fairly obvious, at least regarding your earlier posts), perhaps that conclusion would not have been drawn. Now that you have revealed yourself and your other work, it would not be a label that I would apply again.

I don't hold your support of Chairman Sean against you, and I think your reliance upon regionalism is ill-advised, if arguable. And you dismiss my opposition to some of Chairman Sean's policies, his ambitions, and his apologists by belittling it as someone "who [I] have some strange obsession with." Actually, I'd personally like to forget about him, but I have a thrice-yearly reminder of him in the form of property tax bills (real and personal).

As for you, neocon22, I think your post must be rendered with tongue planted firmly in cheek, since your pseudonymous handle is another one of those evil "labels."

And Anke, you sanctimonious so-and-so. Once again, you contradict yourself. You "really don’t care at all about your opinion any longer, good, bad, or indifferent," but you respond to it. You couldn't ignore me if you tried.

You also confuse legitimate criticism and wry humor with something to which you should take exception, and accuse me of seeking to "tear down a gifted youth" and discourage him. I was neither embarrrassed by TC's revelation, nor did I try to tear him down. Rather, I pointed out the ulterior motive and, frankly, naked dishonesties (in my blog) of some of his earlier posts, a criticism that I hope he will take as constructive, for I will have a great deal more respect for him and his comments if his ulterior motives/biases are revealed. If TC can't take it (and unlike you, he indicates that he can), then he is neither as astute nor tough as he seems to be.

And as for your comment that "This is my last response to you, on anything, in our ongoing blog diatribe (I can’t justify calling it dialogue)," I can only respond with

GAWD, I HOPE SO!

 
At 11/17/2005 03:10:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

Jay, I could've sworn that you mentioned "going commando" at the bloggers convention.

 
At 11/17/2005 03:28:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I play a psychiatrist on television and have been reading James Young's posts. I believe he has an unwholesome obsession with the gentleman by the name of Sean Connaughton. I believe that this obsession is due to his unfulfilled love for this man. James, as your doctor, I think you would feel much better about this man if you simply told him how you REALLY feel.

PS - Is this practicing medicine without a license?

 
At 11/17/2005 03:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank God someone else in this state finds Jim Young to be obsessed with Connaughton.

 
At 11/17/2005 03:45:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

Anon 3:28 and 3:34 --- Just the kind of immaturity I expect from cowards who post anonymously.

I wonder if Anke will direct her poison keyboard your way? Or is immaturity in the defense of moderation no vice?

 
At 11/17/2005 04:00:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim -- It's okay to love, just let it out.

 
At 11/17/2005 04:01:00 PM, Blogger Not Not Jay Hughes said...

James Young said...
Jay, I could've sworn that you mentioned "going commando" at the bloggers convention.


"Oh, James!!!!"

*Trying to do my best James Bond bimbo impression but probably failing miserably due the limitations of electronic print media*

 
At 11/17/2005 04:08:00 PM, Blogger Not Not Jay Hughes said...

"And Anke, you sanctimonious so-and-so. Once again, you contradict yourself. You "really don’t care at all about your opinion any longer, good, bad, or indifferent," but you respond to it. You couldn't ignore me if you tried."

"James, you don’t get it, do you? I really don’t care at all about your opinion any longer, good, bad, or indifferent, particularly after your first post in reaction to the revelations of a most impressive young man (see JY, 9:30 AM post above)."

Now you kitties stop hissing and scratching and play nice or daddy's gonna get the water hose :-)

 
At 11/17/2005 04:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All you need is love, da da da da ...

The Beetles

 
At 11/17/2005 04:49:00 PM, Blogger criticallythinking said...

To all who mentioned me:

I DID rebuke a high school student. I am in fact not impressed that a high school student could have an excellent presense, could run a great blog, and could have valuable insight.

Instead, it saddens me that so few people expect this of our high schoolers. Further, I would certainly expect a person working ON a political campaign to have valuable insight into the race.

I don't give anybody a pass on correction. I am surprised that ANYBODY thinks it was proper to hide this relationship. Hey, it's no big deal, it's not like we invested based on TC's advice, it's just a blog. But when you are young is when you should learn your lessons.

And those who are older, and wiser, and have real-life experience, should be first to provide correction, rebuke, and instruction in righteousness to the next generation, so they can grow up to be "extremely" ethical and above-board in everything they do.

Ethics counts, and costs. Some people might not be able to be bloggers because of what they do -- the answer is to accept those limitations with grace, not use deceptive means to work around them.

So, I reject criticism of my rebuke. It was not harsh, or personal, or unwarranted. IN this PARTICULAR instance, the circumstances don't lend themselves to, for example, a staff job in an administration, but I was speaking in generalities, to make my message more likely to reach a broader audience.

I think TC's posts have been welcome, and interesting, and I appreciate the blog and his contributions. But I don't see how being condescending to him about his age or circumstance is considered better than simply treating him like any other human being, able to take criticism.

To his credit, I don't see TC complaining publicly about the concept of me offering criticism. I don't mean he agrees with me, and wouldn't mind if he disagreed and said so forcefully. But I bet if he does, he won't argue that he's too young to be corrected.

I hope that clarifies my position, and makes those of you using his age as an argument against me, or even against James, to reconsider.

Charles R.
ps: my screen name is not a "psuedonym", it is the name of my column.

 
At 11/17/2005 04:54:00 PM, Blogger criticallythinking said...

BTW, sometimes I get jealous of the rabid following James Young has on this blog. It is amazed how many people are obsessed with telling James what he is obsessed with.

Also, I don't put my name around (like in my blogger profile) simply because I am trying to keep my "privacy" from bots and spammers. I obviously can't be "anonymous" when columns are posted with my real name on the internet, but I like to keep the junk e-mail to a manageable level.

 
At 11/17/2005 05:00:00 PM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

Well said CT, the rebuke was due and appropriate as were several others. As to complaining publicly about them, on this site no. TC has simply removed them, yours, mine and the Jaded JD's. He has gone to Mr. Young's site to voice his complaints.

 
At 11/17/2005 05:21:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

OMOM, I don't think your 5:00 post was fair to TC. I wouldn't say that TC was "complaining publicly about the concept of me offering criticism" on my website. He's perfectly entitled to dispute any particular criticism, without "complaining publicly about the concept of me offering criticism." I would call his comments the legitimate (and more mature) former, not the illegitimate and whiny latter.

 
At 11/17/2005 05:27:00 PM, Anonymous JB said...

Vince is hardly a RINO-

I think the proper wording here is party loyalist and opportunist. If Bolling had been from PWC, I have little doubt that he would've worked for him instead- nothing like being close to a statewide candidate for a high school student.

Compare to Mr. Adam Piper- Field Director for Russ Potts and former Teenage Republicans State Chair- is Piper really a crazy liberal like Potts- I don't honestly know. But something tells me it was the opportunity to work on a state wide campaign.

Should any of this opportunism be forgiven (notably in Piper's case) ... thats for others to decide.

Just something I've noticed...

 
At 11/17/2005 06:24:00 PM, Anonymous TAR-TAR-TAR said...

Mr. Thoms restored honesty and intergrity to the TAR position. He put the TAR back in Virginia.

 
At 11/17/2005 06:27:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

Critically Thinking-
I appreciate your call to help, but I disagree. I know many, MANY members of campaign staff who blog. Many of these members blog, obviously all positively about their respective candidate.

This does not just go on in the Republican party either, and is not limited by age. In fact, I do not bet you know the scope of the number of campaign bloggers.

While I see your point, I respectfully disagree. I just came out about my identity, it is the people who haven't , that post comments, and run blogs who you should be attacking.

JB-disagreed. If Lt.Governor elect Bolling was from Prince William County , I would not have helped him. and who would forgive me?

and thank you Jim Young.

 
At 11/17/2005 07:04:00 PM, Anonymous The Jaded JD said...

I was under the distinct impression that I had commented on this thread around 2:00 PM today, 11/17/05. I am nonplussed that that comment no longer appears--though its fleeting existence seems confirmed by at least two references to it: this comment from Mr. Thoms--where he appears to reply to my comment, though that reply is now also missing--and this comment accusing Mr. Thoms of having removed my comment, and others' as well.

I'm not accusing Mr. Thoms of removing my comment--having used Blogger for a time, I know it tends to be unreliable from time to time--but I invite the members of this site to explain its disappearance.

 
At 11/17/2005 07:28:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

A comment..gone?

If it was removed, post it back up.

I did see it.

 
At 11/17/2005 11:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone with political aspirations at a young age is a bad person.

I guess I can add TC to that list.

 
At 11/18/2005 12:59:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Geez. Attacking people for posting anonymously seems to be an obsession on Virginia political blogs. Particularly bizarre is that the most vehement attackers are themselves essentially anonymous.

Rarely does the attack, the accusation of "cowardice" or whatever, have any sensible merit or purpose. Rarely would it matter whether or not the name of the person is known, given that most of the time they happen to be totally random nobodies (like myself). Instead, it's just a cheap ad hominem smear that allows people to change subjects or feel superior to others as they dodge their comments.

I say: enough. If a blog allows anonymous comments, then it should expect to get them. And people shouldn't bitch about them. It's sort of... well... pathetic.

 
At 11/18/2005 02:03:00 AM, Blogger Not Larry Sabato said...

Vince, your 17 and the entire blogosphere can't stop talking about you. Keep up the good work.

 
At 11/18/2005 08:04:00 AM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

"A comment..gone?"

I see that you have learned well from your mentor "Grasshopper". For the youthful following this string that is a reference to the TV show "Kung Fu" which aired well before most of you were born. I only mention that as your frames of reference seem to date no further back than 2001.

By starting and maintaing this forum, you open yourself to criticism, valid and invalid. To ignore that criticism is one option, to delete the initial reference, feign ignorance of its absence and continue the debate within the constraints of your own opinion is no less reprehensible than calling a 50% increase in the real tax paid a tax cut. I could pardon the deletion of my own previous comments given the vitriol however the deletion of potentially sage advice and observations from those such as the "Jaded JD" goes beyond the pale and intimates that you incapable of accepting legitimate criticism. If you continue your development in this fashion, I would suggest moving to PWC as you would make a fine lackey to the current chair. In fact, I would suggest moving to the Gainesville or Occoquan Districts and challenging the current supervisors there as they seem to be more of a thorn in the side of Squish Connaughton than the Dems (perhaps because they are more in line with the ideals and goals of the rank and file members of the GOP). That suggestion hinges however on the current chair retaining his popular appeal and position, a premise that may that already be dated.

AWC, NLS, etal, your continued support of the aberrant if not unethical behavior of TC is just as reprehensible. Although his questionable behavior may be written off as a foible of youth, encouraging it a disservice to someone who is obviously interested, despite his motivations,in the political realm, an interest that is all too lacking in today's youth. Similarly, continued encouragement may embolden TC and possibly lead to more egregious behavior or heaven forbid an unresponsive future candidate whose only frame of reference is self-agrandisement and who only takes advice from sycophants.

Go ahead, blast me for being rough on Junior, but I believe in the maxim "Spare the Rod". Similarly, although many of you want to parse many of the postings or gently encourage TC, I am "Old School" and have never been accused of being terribly diplomatic or politically correct, rather I am blunt and although mindful of the potential repercussions, unconcerned about the consequences of offending the squish segment of the GOP. You can thus accuse me of having an oversized ego but I would suggest that it comes as a result of being much more self aware than many of you and not deluding myself about my importance, position or relevance.

 
At 11/18/2005 09:35:00 AM, Anonymous JB said...

So because other campaign staff is blogging anon. that makes it ok?

I'm not sure if the 'everyone else is doing it' rational has ever held up as a legit. excuse in this country.

 
At 11/18/2005 10:35:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NMOM-

I doubt you would be so open and blunt, if we could hold you accountable for the brash comments you make.

 
At 11/18/2005 11:04:00 AM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

Anon 10;35, don't bet on it.

 
At 11/18/2005 12:45:00 PM, Anonymous Will Evans said...

Someday, I hope to help ruin TC's political aspirations much like I ruined Craddock's.

 
At 11/18/2005 01:15:00 PM, Blogger Riley, Not O'Reilly said...

Anon 11:09 PM wrote:

Anyone with political aspirations at a young age is a bad person.

I guess I can add TC to that list.


I hope that was written in jest. (Again the limits of electronic print media as NNJH pointed out above.)

Anyone with political aspirations because they want to BE someone rather than DO something, regardless of age, belongs on such a list. No doubt, there are some young people who have a compulsion to serve because there are things that they want to accomplish, not on account of the honorifics of office. I think a number of people would agree that someone like Clinton decided to enter public life for the wrong reasons.

 
At 11/18/2005 03:02:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

Perhaps a bit out of context, but addressed to those whose comments disappeared...I think I may have a suggestion as to how that could have happened. I just posted a comment on another section of this blog and, after previewing, the "hidden letter" came up again before I was able to post. It reminded me that, the first time this happened, I didn't see that step at the bottom and assumed (as is the case on other blogs...many are technically different) that my comment posted. When I checked back, it had disappeared. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it might be a possibility.

 
At 11/18/2005 03:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's ashame that'll be saying adios to TC next year as he leaves the state for college.

 
At 11/18/2005 03:37:00 PM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

AWC: Were the disappearance of the comments so simple. They were posted, commented on and subsequently selectively deleted, a conscious and I would suggest juvenile act.

Mine own behavior aside, the other postings suggested ethics violations by those seemingly qualified to call the matter into question. To this point, any further commentary on that issue has either been glossed, obfuscated or suppressed.

 
At 11/18/2005 03:45:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

MOM-Just clearing this up-is your name in reference to Marty Nohe?

 
At 11/18/2005 03:51:00 PM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

You're obfuscating again.

 
At 11/18/2005 04:05:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

That's a big word.

We haven't gotten that far in English 12 this year.

 
At 11/18/2005 04:09:00 PM, Blogger MR JMS said...

It is the policy of this blog to only delete comments that are of an obscene nature.

With that being said I reviewed the comment moderation section of this thread and did not see any that had been removed. However, as stated Blogger is a horrible program and hopefully one day we will move to Type Pad.

 
At 11/18/2005 04:24:00 PM, Anonymous The Original Marty's Oversized Melon said...

Sorry, not buying it. It is "tooconvenient" that posts exploring the ethical ramifications disappeared. I would also note that the two most relevant posts in that regard are referenced in TC's own post of 2:18. Might want to put some parental controls on the moderation section as the behavior calls into question the crediblity of all associated with the blog and not just TC.

 
At 11/18/2005 04:29:00 PM, Blogger James Young said...

Jim, I liked and endorse your 1:15 post, particuarly comment that "Anyone with political aspirations because they want to BE someone rather than DO something, regardless of age, belongs on ... a list" of bad people with political aspirations.

Would you include Senator Foghorn Leghorn ... er, John Warner on such a list?

If not, name three significant pieces of legislation to which his name as attached as the primary Senate sponsor.

 
At 11/18/2005 05:02:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

Why would I reference something, and then delete it?

Come out with the identity NMOM.

 
At 11/18/2005 05:18:00 PM, Anonymous The Jaded JD said...

Well, my earlier comment is gone. In some respect, I agree that the manner in which it and the others disappeared after having been referenced by others seems deliberate, but I know Blogger well, and it ate many of my actual posts when it hosted my blog--I have no idea how many comments it ate. I'm not going to accuse anyone of doing something wicked when I don't know it to be the case. I'll simply take a screen shot of this comment, as I took of the comment addressing the missing first comment, and have it in reserve should this instant comment disappear as well.

The gist of my earlier, missing comment was that I think I'm the most senior pseudonymous member of the Virginia political blogosphere, since Mr. Dotson is no longer pseudonymous. I may be wrong, and will relinquish the claim if it belongs to someone else. But if I am, and if it gives me any weight on this subject, I have to say that I believe it was wrong of Mr. Thoms to blog about a campaign in which he had a financial interest.

Pseudonymous bloggers, if anything, owe a higher level of disclosure than named bloggers, because the readers cannot uncover conflicts on their own. And conflicts give rise to bias, and readers deserve the opportunity to discern bias and discount it. Accordingly, my view is, and has been, that a pseudonymous blogger has two options: (1) disclose any financial relationship that possibly creates a conflict of interest, or (2) refrain from posting on the topic where the potential for conflict arises, if the conflict cannot be disclosed without losing pseudonymity.

Mr. Thoms could have complied by revealing that he was a paid staffer for a statewide candidate, and left it there. Of course, the nature of his posts may have led some to guess correctly which candidate that was. He could have complied by commenting about any race except the GOP LTG nomination race--and subsequently the Craddock House race. He did neither.

While I think less of Mr. Thoms for the oversight, I don't believe I will think less of him for it forever. He's not entitled to favorable consideration because of his age, because he's too mature to claim to be too young to know better. But I will give him the opportunity to redeem himself with his future performance, because the medium is new and its rules inchoate.

I do have to add that, how ever frequently Original Marty's Oversized Melon may associate himself with my comments, and how ever flattering it may be that anyone chooses to, I can't reciprocate. There's no excuse for patronizing, condescending behavior, like calling Mr. Thoms "Junior" or "Son," as you've done both here and on James Young's thread--unless you actually sired him, of course. It's crass, disrespectful, and ungentle. We're all of us better than that; or, we ought to be.

 
At 11/19/2005 12:25:00 PM, Anonymous MOM said...

All right, I'll take one more stab at this thread.

First, Jaded JD, I do not believe I have associated myself with your comments, merely commented on their potential as sage advice and that fact that they have disappeared. Given your background I assume that your analysis on disclosure and ethics is sound and frankly it dovetails with mine. That having been said, I have ready many of your other postings on other subjects and agree with some and vehemently disagree with others, such is the nature of political debate even among those who views may be similar in many respects.

As to the treatment of "Junior" being crass, disrespectful and ungentle, yeah, it is that and that is by intention. Respect is an earned commodity not one that simply bestowed upon an individual on a certain birthday or upon appointment to a particular position and I would suggest one that TC has earned. I would suggest that similar behavior by an intern at your firm would not engender the gentle reproach you suggest.

I suspect that I am not alone in having served in similar capacities at the same age and used those opportunities to learn from the older, wiser and more experienced that Critically Thinking (CT) refers to. Do you honestly believe that TC's behavior would have been condoned or even tolerated in the brass knuckles era of the late eighties and early nineties. Anybody else remember the inter-party war between what I would call the Old Guard and the Fundamentalists during G HW Bush's campaign, a squabble that got extradorinarly ugly at the local, regional and state convention levels. I sure as hell do and remember instances of locked doors at mass meeting sites, last minute changes in meeting times, bus loads of "loyal party members" who couldn't spell Republican and voted based on based on visual cues provided by organizers standing at the front of the room waving their arms. How do you think the intractable TC would have handled that campaign particularly given that both sides were staffed with their share of experienced brass knuckled operatives.

Similarly, I would never have presumed to have the taken the tone that TC has with many of those same individuals. I've read posts that suggest TC believes he has that right simply because he worked the instant campaign and believes those who sat on their rumps to be slackers with little right to an opinion. Should he continue his personal level of participation until he reaches my age, I may give him that, but since he has no idea of the past level of contribution of those he accuses, johnny come lately needs to tone it down and understand that his assertion may have little or no basis with many.

As regards his blog content, he dismisses his criticism of Sean's enemies on the basis that he worked for a supporter of Bolling. Given that his support of that campaign came subsequent to the failed bid for Lt. Gov. and he continues to parrot the esteemed chairman's mantras, the assertion is both disingenuous and without merit as the blog does indeed appear in many respect to be an official campaign operation of Connaughton, particular given Sean's direct participation.

Further he has obfuscated on the issue of the ethical ramifications of his behavior and suggests that he shouldn't be criticized because he came out of the closet after the fact, suggesting that critics should attack those who continue his past behavior. He also attempts to justify his past behavior with the old excuse that everyone else is doing it to which I would respond the same way I do to my own teenager, namely, If everyone else walked around with a pile of "excrement" on their head would you?

Lastly, I will take this opportunity to parrot CT, I AM ALWAYS RIGHT, at least until proven otherwise, a circumstance that happens infrequently as I do my homework and don't make a habit of firing from the hip. Yeah that might slightly (or more than slightly) egotistical but it comes as a result of a lot of work and life experience, more than enough to entitle me to that outlook. Some of you need to stop mollycoddling or congratulating TC, he's not deserving of a free pass. You should focus on correcting his behavior patterns, educating and mentoring him as unlike most of today's youth he shows an interest in the party and future. Wish I could of more help to him but I have a full plate of adults in need of the same treatment in addition to several dragons to slay and windmills to tilt at.

With that, I will now abandon the moniker "Marty's Oversized Melon" as quite frankly I don't remember the orginal reason for its creation and simply go by the less objectional MOM.

 
At 11/19/2005 01:54:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

I must wonder if the majority of this criticism of TC would exist if he had, indeed, turned out to be O.P. Ditch, a man of many more years of experience. I strongly suspect that at least some of the comments would have been a simple, "I knew it!" I can't understand why the criticism can't be directed in a more "instructive" fashion (as CriticallyThinking did, indeed, attempt to do in his posting, as did Jaded JD, and a few others on this rambling string) coupled with, at the least, a recognition that a young man of so few years of life-experience has managed to maintain such an informative and ADULT-SOUNDING blog for the past 6 months, erring only on the side of lack of experience. I, for one, congratulate him and hope that he continues this blog indefitily...I know it will only get better and better as his experience grows.

 
At 11/19/2005 02:01:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11/19/2005 02:05:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

I really should proof read better...I mean, of course, ^indefinitely. I really do wish these comment sections had spell-check to catch those typos! (previous post deleted due to another typo...geesh!)

 
At 11/19/2005 03:39:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

MOM-
I had tolerence for your posts until the last one.

I do not need anyone else in my life "mentoring" or "helping" me , I already have enough more educated , classy people to help me with that.

Your patronizing attitude simply amuses me, considering I do not know what kind of adult , or anyone for that matter, could be so constantly negative.

The problem with you,besides the demeaning and inconsiderate title you use, is that you have already discredited everything you say, but the context in which you say it.

I could make assumptions as to who you are, but quite simply I do not care.

You do not know anything about me, and thus have no right to judge anything about me. Your blatant statements comparing my analysis on campaign blogging, in comparison to wear poop on my head again shows how little and insignificant anything you say actually means.

I hope in the future, you can spend more time parenting your own children, having children if you do not or getting out and doing something for our party, instead of sitting on your ass for hours on end, writing 1,000 word attack pieces on 17 year olds. Do you not have a life?

Because I do not know your identity, this is already an unfair playing field.

Regarding Connaughton, GET OVER IT. I am simply SICK of the cooky people becoming so angry over a man many do not know personally. I ALREADY dissliked the crew that finds Connaughton repulsive, and your mindless rhetoric, coupled with others has only embetted those thoughts deeper in my mind.


You say I show interest in the party? Well people like you make me DESPISE the party, and quite simply anger me beyond belief, at your unfounded, and unbased attacks.

Get OVER IT, and get over yourself.

-Some mentoring words for you.

 
At 11/19/2005 05:43:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

Well, perhaps "Melon" is in fact a Democrat who wants to chase one of the most impressive young people that I'VE seen in the Republican Party in a long time into their arms. Certainly, the enormous loss for us would be their enormous gain. But, knowing that Vincent has shown far more maturity than some of the adults who have posted on his very adult site, I'm willing to bet that the well-justified anger will subside and he will see these people for what they are and that they are not representative of even a majority of those involved in politics. In the process, however, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes more cynical as a result of all this, which is truly a shame. One of the advantages of youth is that it gives us the opportunity to be idealistic and optimistic with unfettered abandon. Cynicism comes soon enough. Unfortunately, as pointed out by BWANNA on a previous string on Too Conservative, we Republicans do have the unfortunate tendency to “eat our young.” Perhaps this quite literal example can teach us all something.

 
At 11/21/2005 05:32:00 PM, Anonymous Tracy said...

Hey, Vince. I know the reporter who wrote the Fitch/Bobsled article you linked to.

 
At 11/22/2005 12:12:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

Brian McNeil?

Yes, he wrote all the nasty stuff on Craddock.

 

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