Saturday, December 10, 2005

If Tookie Dies-Remain Calm

The Los Angeles Human Relations Committee urged calm -incase notorious Crips founder Tookie Williams is put to death next week. Los Angeles must have huge troubles if people will riot upon the death of a convicted murderer.... This article talks about how South L.A. is still "divided on Tookie's fate"...because....

A few still speak admiringly of how the young co-founder of the Crips used to stroll down the avenues with one strap of his overalls undone to expose his bare 22-inch arms and 55-inch chest, just daring someone to take a shot at him.
So because some murderer had big muscles and flexed them....he shouldnt get the juice? I hope Governor Schwarzenegger rejects his plea for clemency.

22 Comments:

At 12/10/2005 06:19:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

If it was up to you, everyone would be dead.

 
At 12/10/2005 08:36:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

If by everyone you mean convicted murders, who start notorious gangs which still exist today...than yes.

 
At 12/10/2005 11:00:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Tookie Williams thing bugs me. I'm all for the Death Penalty, but I think its a dangerous thing not to allow someone to win back their life. Mayeb not Tookie himself, but I see this country going more and more to never letting criminals rebuild their reputations. Despite Tookie's vicious past, he seems to have genuinly worked to right his wrongs, and to warn children not to follow his own path. Is his vicious past worse? Of course. But something must be said for a man sitting on death row to reach out to the world like Tookie did, when he had nothing really to gain out of it. I don't know. I worry about a society that does not allow its worst part of society any sort of redemption. If he dies, I won't be that upset because the parents, brothers, sisters, and friends of his victims will never have their loved ones back. But still, it seems clear that Tookie has worked increidibly hard towards warning the youth of the dangers of gangs and striving for moral redemption. God, I hope I'm not turning into a squishy liberal. But something about this case that just bugs me.

 
At 12/10/2005 11:54:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Clemency is reserved for cases when there is a question about the evidence, trial, etc. isn't it?

I personally do not support the death penalty but if a community, state, country, etc. sets a law then it has to be used equally for all. This offender has been tried and sentenced according to the law. If they allow him to walk away from the penalty, they might as well change the law. They would never be able to execute another person. Every case would end up in court after court with the convicted trying to prove how they have "reformed". Either enforce the law or change the law.

 
At 12/11/2005 12:27:00 AM, Blogger too conservative said...

agreed 2nd anon.

1st anon-look at carla faye tucker in texas..she reformed way more than tookie, and killed less people.

-but tookie shot people execution style...and carla faye tucker murdered with a pick axe, and got sexual pleasure out of it.

Some people are simply evil, and keeping them alive is disturbing.

Execute Tookie Williams

 
At 12/11/2005 06:35:00 AM, Anonymous NoVA Scout said...

The possibility of redemption is an underlying principle behind the general opposition to the death penalty of many Christian churches. The statements of the Roman Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church of the United States (for example) rank as a high priority the obligation of government to protect citizens against violent criminals, but posit that there are very few, if any, instances where such protection cannot be fully provided by means other than death.

I've come to feel that life imprisonment without possibility of parole must be about as strong a deterrent as one can possibly devise, particularly for young toughs who might perversely consider the notoreity of execution a part of their violent ethos.

Re Tookie - not at all sure what I would do if I were Schwarzenegger. I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

 
At 12/11/2005 09:01:00 AM, Blogger Walt Ball said...

while I am GENERALLY opposed to DP, I can think of no better candidate for it's use than this SOB

 
At 12/11/2005 11:44:00 AM, Blogger Willis said...

People who use evil as an adjective are too stupid to think of anything else.

There is no such thing as evil, TC.

 
At 12/11/2005 01:07:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

Don't be naive.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot...Some people are evil.

 
At 12/11/2005 03:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are definitely evil people and no amount of reform in the world will change that but to me, the death penalty seems like the easiest way out. Living in a prison for the rest of my life sounds so much worse than going to sleep. Yes, there's the cost of prison to be considered... Why don't we just send all the murderers to an island and let them live on their own? We don't have to pay for them and we don't have to struggle with the moral issues of the death penalty.

If not that, then at least cut off the cable tv and serve only bread and water!

 
At 12/11/2005 03:25:00 PM, Blogger too conservative said...

I wouldnt call where murderers go sleep....

 
At 12/11/2005 04:22:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just meant that a life sentence prolongs the agony.

If they consider themselves reformed and reborn, they assume they're going to heaven anyway right?

 
At 12/11/2005 09:15:00 PM, Blogger AWCheney said...

What we've seen more and more of in this country is people being unwilling to assume consequences for their own actions. The legal profession, the psychologists, the sociologists, even some elements of the religious community (and the list goes on and on) all seem to be blaming everyone but the criminal him/herself for wrongdoing, and therefore not being responsible for their own actions. It would seem that everyone BUT the criminal belongs behind bars and/or on death row...the poor, deprived, abused, brainwashed (by TV, music, etc.), genetically pre-disposed (and on and on), are the actual victims. And, as many in the religious community point out to us...no matter what you do, just let Christ into your life and all will be forgiven; just make sure that when you do it again after you leave the church on Sunday, you say you're sorry. Good works are passé, unless they are from a ruthless career criminal, most likely a sociopath, who is willing to do anything to save his own life...including making a highly ineffective attempt to "re-educate" his gang that has since grown to inconceivable proportions, both in numbers and violence.

And, Willis…if you can believe in good, then you’ve got to believe in evil. You wouldn’t be able to differentiate one from the other if they didn’t BOTH exist…although some people really do seem to be attempting to blur the lines.

 
At 12/12/2005 01:04:00 AM, Blogger Willis said...

As I said earlier, evil is an adjective used by lazy, uninventive people.

Nobody is evil. Everything is relative.

 
At 12/12/2005 01:28:00 AM, Blogger AWCheney said...

My Mr. Willis...your amazing insight into the human psyche, as well as your brilliant, albeit prosaic prose positively stuns me. I am in awe sir.

 
At 12/12/2005 06:45:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, I went the extra mile. I looked up the word and found all kinds of replacements we could have used:

angry, atrocious, bad, baneful, base, beastly, calamitous, corrupt, damnable, depraved, destructive, disastrous, execrable, flagitious, foul, harmful, hateful, heinous, hideous, iniquitous, injurious, loathsome, low, maleficent, malevolent, malicious, malignant, nefarious, no good, obscene, offensive, pernicious, poison, rancorous, reprobate, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, sinful, unpleasant, unpropitious, vicious, vile, villainous, wicked, wrathful, wrong

While any of these would come close, I still like evil best. Someone whose life legacy is a murderous gang deserves the title. A mosquito bite is unpleasant - I would squish the mosquito. A rabid dog is vicious - it would be put down. People that organize gangs and murder innocent people are evil!

 
At 12/12/2005 01:23:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

Why don't you use an adjective that actually DESCRIBES something?? Evil is a religious term, and needlessly brings religion into the discussion.

Plenty of other adjectives are available. Murderous would work. Manipulative, sure.

Evil is lazy, stupid, and untrue.

 
At 12/12/2005 10:56:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Willis,

I don't intend to waste time arguing over the origin of the word evil so I'll leave that one alone.

I am really curious, do you also not use the word "good" or any other word you consider religion-based in your every-day communications? I'm not sniping. I am truly interested.

 
At 12/13/2005 12:56:00 AM, Blogger Willis said...

"Good" is used in different ways. In the way the word "good" is the opposite of the word "evil", no, I don't use it. Of course, I say, "this is a good cup of coffee," and stuff like that.

It's not that I have a strict policy on ever using the word evil. I don't. But because I don't believe anything is evil, I will attack anyone who uses that repeatedly as an adjective regarding something or someone.

It's a lazy term used by religious people who can't come up with real-world terms to describe something. It also implies a moral authority of the person using the term over the person being described, which is total bullcrap.

 
At 12/13/2005 02:08:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wouldn't the use of "lazy", "uninventive" and "stupid" also imply that the person using the term knows the personal habits, I.Q. and traits of the person he is labeling?

If you do not believe in good and evil then why is the word "murder" ok? While "murder" and "kill" describe the same physical act, isn't "murder" only used when the act is morally wrong. Kill is used when the act is determined to be morally justified. If there is no good and no evil, there can be no morals. Right?

 
At 12/13/2005 03:14:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

To your first paragraph: my adjectives are real-world adjectives. They mean something in this world. Your logic is flawed.

To the second paragraph: Morals can be determined outside of religion. For many people, those morals are derived from religion, and if that works for them thats fine. But our morals are really derived from our society, not from religion.

There is no other adjective that carries quite the weight that "evil" does. I would challenge you to find one. Murder isn't even close to as weighty a word, since it describes a real-world action.

 
At 12/13/2005 05:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Diabolic - oops... that's religious too...

Evil means something to me in the real world. Just because it doesn't mean something to you doesn't make it any less effective when I use it. It means what it means to me. "Phat" means something to me too. Probably not the same it means to you. Same goes for the word "Prettiful".

I am color-blind. I can see basic colors but not shades of colors. Dark red may mean something to you but it means nothing to me. Instead of seeing shades of colors, I see thickness, movement, texture, etc. For example, when I hold a piece of fabric that my daughter says is dark red, I "see" "thick and red". When I show her a fabric that she says is light green I "see" "sharp and green". I see round, sharp, thick, wavy, chaotic, etc. Believe it or not, there are many people like me. There are even some people that taste color.

To you, round orange means nothing. To me, it means the color of the harvest moon.

When you ride a rollercoaster, do you feel pain, pleasure, fear? I feel excited, exhilarated. My daughter feels anger.

My point is that humans are all about perception. We struggle with language to describe our perceptions to other humans because they are unable to see what is in our head or heart. Language can help or hinder. Saying that another human can't use a word is taking away their ability to share with you their perception. You don't have to use the word if you like something better but if you limit humans to the words they can use in your company, you end up losing out on the conversation.

 

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