Wednesday, December 21, 2005

More examples of the disresepct for Christmas

Last night, as there was nothing good to watch on TV, I decided to go against my better judgement and watch the cbs 48hours special on "The Mystery of Christmas." Let me say that i will never mistrust my instincts again. The interviewer, Maureen Maherer, first equated miracles with magic, saying that miracles and magic were common in the days of Jesus's birth. Throughout the special, our brilliant journalist intereviewd four religous scholars, three of whom believed that the book of Matthew was embellished when Matthew wrote it. There was only one scholar, a preacher, who believes the Gospel to be accurate in regards to Jesus's birth. One of the scholars called Mary an adulterer and also said the King Herrod never executed the young Jewish boys out of fear of being overthrown by the Messiah. My problem is not with having a special discussing the events of Jesus's birth, but rather the imbalanced discussion. Also, why must they have this debate now? Are there ever any debates on mohhamed during rammadan? With the current discussions and even frustration brewing in the country over the "holiday" tree and other disregard for what we are celebrating, i see this as an attempt for further discredit the miracle of Jesus's birth. One more example of how Christ is being taken out of the "holiday season": I was picking up a little boy i babysit from his preschool last week and there were dreidels and menorrahs on the walls representing Hannukah. However, instead of pictures of an angel or anything slightly religous representing Christmas, there were pictures of Santa.

23 Comments:

At 12/21/2005 01:52:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

Your post, neocon, is a perfect example of what is wrong with the right, and particularly the religious right, nowadays.

You watched the 48 hours special with preconcieved notions. When the experts on the show didn't agree with your preconcieved notions, instead of maybe questioning those notions, you got angry and felt persecuted, and probably feel that the experts were deliberately lying.

Your religion clouds your rationality at every turn. Any opinion contrary to yours are wrong, and any tv station airing these opinions is evil and discriminatory.

It is very problematic for this country, that so many citizens are unwilling to change their views regardless of the evidence presented before them, and get angry at any debate in which these views are aired.

 
At 12/21/2005 02:04:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

I never said they were wrong. Where in my post did i say "those scholars are wrong". I did however, explicitly state that i had a problem with the IMBALANCE of the debate.

read more carefully willis. the devil is in the details.

 
At 12/21/2005 02:10:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

Further, those who are offended by Christ or Christmas or those who believe in Christ, are much too quick to make accussations of being close minded or being clouded by religion.

willis: dont tell me how i felt whatching the special, as i am perfectly capable of identifiying my feeling MYSELF: "You watched the 48 hours special with preconcieved notions. When the experts on the show didn't agree with your preconcieved notions, instead of maybe questioning those notions, you got angry and felt persecuted, and probably feel that the experts were deliberately lying."

 
At 12/21/2005 02:11:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

The reason there is no debate on mohammed is because so few Americans are muslims. Over 70% of Americans call themselves christian, so the debate is not only necessary, but prescient.

The discussion may have been imbalanced in your view, but recognize that it is your view. Not everyone is religious, and not every religious person interprets the bible literally.

The debate isn't only necessary, it is important.

 
At 12/21/2005 02:17:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

but you mnust admit there is imbalance. this is yet another example of tyranny of the minority and this whole Christmas being offensive debacle is a result of way too much political correctness.

and being imbalanced is being imbalanced. this is not a view, it is a FACT. 3 to 1 is imbalanced. I think any reasonable person would say that about any debate.

 
At 12/21/2005 02:19:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

I didn't see the show, so I cannot say it was imbalanced. You may very well be presenting a skewed view of the show, a view I wouldn't agree with.

Tyranny of the minority simply isn't possible. Have you been kept from worshiping your god??

 
At 12/21/2005 02:24:00 PM, Anonymous The Ghost of Tom Joad said...

"I was picking up a little boy i babysit from his preschool last week and there were dreidels and menorrahs on the walls representing Hannukah. However, instead of pictures of an angel or anything slightly religous representing Christmas, there were pictures of Santa."

Unfortunately, in America, Christmas has become commercialized. Santa IS the dominant theme. Since Christians many years ago decided to sell their religious holiday out to attract non-believers, the resulting semi-purge of religion from Christmas is a natural result. I don't see "Ezekiel the Magical Gift Giver" being trotted out for Channakauh so the mennorah and dreidel are symbols. That presents, trees and reindeer are the dominant theme now is not the fault of non-Christians.

 
At 12/21/2005 03:15:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off is Chanukah not Hannukah. Which leads me to my second reason maybe we allow these other religions into our schools is so that the kids can learn something new (i.e. how to spell the name of a different holiday) and since some many of the war against Christmas types say that 95% (heard someone on Hanity say and math doesn't really add up) of America celebrates Christmas and the majority of kids will be observing Christmas(personal observation growing up in Fairfax county). Why educate them about something that they already know about. Third the gospels all retell the same story and each gospel tells a pretty different version. How would you explain the differences?

P.S. Maybe the real reason is that so we can all be as smart as the Jews because how many times have they misspelled hristma

 
At 12/21/2005 04:18:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

i have seen Jews spell said holiday as Hannukah. and Christians did not sell out Christmas. A true Christian always remembers and teaches children WHY we celebrate CHRISTmas.

 
At 12/21/2005 04:30:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

By referring Chanukah as "said holiday" are you inferring that Chanukah is not a real holiday. I think Jesus would be offended by your intolerance of his religion.

 
At 12/21/2005 04:46:00 PM, Anonymous The Ghost of Tom Joad said...

"i have seen Jews spell said holiday as Hannukah. and Christians did not sell out Christmas. A true Christian always remembers and teaches children WHY we celebrate CHRISTmas."

There is NO doubt that Christians sold out Christmas a long time ago. Where do you think Christmas trees come from...Jeruselam? Where does Santa come from? I'm sure Neocon that you do not give any presents at all and do not partake in this bastardization of Christmas because that would be sacralige!

 
At 12/21/2005 05:48:00 PM, Blogger J.Sarge said...

*sigh*

I'm not going to get involved, except to say that the phrase "said holiday" does not imply that the holiday is illegitimate. The word "said" in that context is a word of reference, not quality.

 
At 12/21/2005 08:52:00 PM, Blogger Lucy Jones said...

There are many ancient reasons for yuletime symbols. My favorite:

Santa Claus is the Patron Saint of Giving, St. Nicholas. He came in the night and left bags of money for families that had no money for their daughters' doweries. This kept the families from having to send their daughters to shame. He is also the Saint that allowed young boys to be "Bishop for a day". Still practiced in some families as "Queen for the day". He was a real person. He also is regarded as the Patron Saint for sailors in some countries whether religious or not. He recognized that drowning people needed to be saved whether they were Christians or not.

The Christmas tree symbolizes the wonder of the evergreen tree because it remains green when the others go brown in the winter. The lights on the tree are from Martin Luther (a Monk) in Germany. He lit candles on the tree to show his family what the stars looked like outside. There are many other religious stories about the tree but Non religious people can celebrate this one as well as religious.

Just because families give and recieve gifts on Christmas doesn't mean they have commercialized or bastardized Christmas. Our family certainly hasn't. It's family meal, recognizing Christ's birth and a "birthday party".

 
At 12/21/2005 09:13:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

Well, if the commercialization of christmas isn't a bastardization of it, then why in the world are you complaining if people say happy holidays??

Also, I am intrigued as to why Martin Luther would put candles on his tree to show his family what stars looked like. Couldn't his family look at the stars themselves??

 
At 12/21/2005 10:02:00 PM, Blogger Lucy Jones said...

I'm not complaining if people say happy holidays as long as they are saying it because they want to and not because they feel pressured to. I do at least try to say the correct thing if I know someone is Christian, Jewish, or whatever but I don't care if someone tells me Happy [C]hanukkah or Passover or whatever...

Martin had travelled a long way and along his walk he observed the stars. His family could not walk outside and see what he had seen.

 
At 12/22/2005 01:06:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There can only be one truth with respect to God. Was Jesus, God in the body of a man? If so, then, that is what I call magic! I am sure we can find a group of "experts" to explain that Jesus was perhaps a girl or a pigmy or that Mary wasn't a virgin..or that this story was made up by elves who lived in the forest. Let's turn to math to help us find the truth. There over 25,000 references to places, distances, and directions in the Bible. Not a single error. Within the Bible.. God recorded all of history through code. Surely you have studied the Bible Code. The ability to know what was going to happen thousands of years ago was "magic" and then to write it within the text of the Bible was even more of a "mystery". The code makes literally every letter of the Bible important. Didn't Jesus say to Satan... "It is written"..God's words are very important.. don't you get it... this isn't a game and men who choose to create a "Jesus" that allows them to feel comfort in their own immorality are in for a rude awakening. The message Jesus gave us was also a warning. If he was God, and he took those nails in his hands ( or wrists)... this is a very serious situation.. to ignore his words is for more serious than all everything in life put together a billion times over. You want eternal peace follow Jesus..there is no other way. The magic was there in the early Christian years.. yes... real magic... his name was God. One thing for sure... one day in the future ..we will all be able to find out if this group.. the Christian were a bunch of fools or were they some human beings who worked directly for the creator of the universe. Who am I?.. no one... however, I read the arrogance in men's words and they are fools.. we don't know anything... mankind is so low on the body of knowledge chart that we really should be looking for help.. because as we face death without him there is no peace.. and with him... there is nothing but peace. Preconceived notions..what a cleaver approach to a mocking someone's belief's... I know what "open minded" is all about.. it is called "relative thinking" using this "non-preconceived" approach to life you can justify anything that you want.. I mean anything.. there is no moral basis to any decesion...man's moral basis works like this.. it was ok to kill Jews in Germany in WWII and in America today it is ok to kill unborn children... It is all relative and if we keep an open mind.. then we should understand the other man's point of view...in any case God does have a preconceived views of .. right and wrong and the value of life ..tagree or not no one can argue the finite number of days we will live... and that we must all face death....for those who are not saved ... should all be trembling..fear God .. for this is his world not ours..

 
At 12/22/2005 09:21:00 AM, Blogger Willis said...

I don't fear him. Hear that god?? Strike me down!!!

Wait, I'm still here.

 
At 12/22/2005 09:26:00 AM, Blogger Lucy Jones said...

Willis..... stop baiting. That's not nice.

 
At 12/22/2005 12:03:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

He was baiting me with all the god talk.

 
At 12/22/2005 12:42:00 PM, Blogger Lucy Jones said...

What did you expect when the subject of the post is Christmas and you came out with "your religion clouds your rationality at every turn"?

You, of all people, should be in agreement with TC's comment. Aren't you the one that wants "equal time"? The show should have portrayed both (or more) sides of the subject. Last time I checked, it's the responsibility of "news" shows to portray information in a balanced, unbiased way.

Anyway, it is our duty, as Christians, to try to show you the light... I'm not sure dragging you kicking and screaming is the way but if you don't want to hear it, you can't hang around in posts that are about CHRISTmas and then complain.

 
At 12/22/2005 02:13:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

As I said in an earlier comment, I didn't see the show, so I cannot comment on how balanced or imbalanced it may have been.

I would guess, though, that had I seen the show, I would not be in agreement with neocon as to the degree of the imbalance.

If it is the responsibility of news organizations to be balanced in their coverage, then Fox News should be abolished immediately. The sad truth is that, because of the tremendous influence of Fox News and its tremendously slanted coverage, other news sources are tilting further left to pick up the rest of us. It's the way its going to be, so long as Fox News has such an influence.

So, if you are incensed about balance, start by complaining about Fox, who started this trend.

 
At 12/22/2005 02:15:00 PM, Blogger neocon22 said...

anon 3:15: giving Christmas cards and presents does not discount the meaning of Christmas.

lucy jones, thank you for articulating my problem with the cbs special, which was actually the original subject of the post. the IMBALANCE, again, IMBALANCE, of the piece is what was most disturbing.

 
At 12/22/2005 05:47:00 PM, Blogger Willis said...

Don't forget about Mithra!

 

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